THIS ISNīT SUPPORTING SATANISM. IīM NOT ALLOWING ANY REQUESTS FROM SATANISTIC GROUPS!!!
Seriously, there are many reasons why God is worse than Satan:
1. God was the one who created Satan. Since God is omniscient, he knew that Satan would cause suffering.
2. In the Bible, God has killed way more people than Satan (after all, Satan never killed almost EVERYONE in the world)
3. In 2 Samuel 24:1, God tells David to number Israel and Judah, while in 1 Chronicles 21:1, it's Satan who supposedly told David to number Israel. This would mean that God and Satan are the SAME being.
While the view is interesting on Satan, that is only if Satan were nothing more than a clock work doll, or a piece set to play only one role.
1. God created Satan/Lucifer and all creation. Satan became jealous of God and incited a rebellion against God and became sinful and fell. Logically, while God created all the angels of Heaven he very well also gave them their own will and choices. (Same goes for man in the Garden of Eden, they were tempted, not forced to take the fruit.)
2. God is a righteous God who is perfect, when God flooded the Earth it was to rid the world of the sin that the fallen angels had incited and to get rid of the Nephilim. God had a right to judge man in the garden for their sin there, but he made to them a promise to send a savior, Jesus Christ, to atone for their sin. While Satan may not care if they live or die, he is ultimately tempting and leading them away. It was mans choice to sin and fall from God.
3. 2 Samuel 24:1-2 "Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."" The word 'incited' indicates that was was not God but a messenger sent by God. Satan tempted and told the king what to do, but Jacob was not deceived by this command, 2 Samuel 24:3 "But Jacob replied to the king, "May the Lord your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?" This was an act of judgement against Israel for their king breaking this law. God did not send one of His angels but sent Satan, showing how even Satan must submit to God's almighty will. This shows a chance to avoid the temptation with what Jacob says and shows how the king/ man ultimately chose to give in.
While God is perfect and judges, He also gives forgiveness of sins and gave the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, Jesus Christ. To reject such grace is the choice of man and the temptations of Satan.
2. Why did God create those fallen angels and Nephilim in the first place?
3. Why would Satan be Gods servant at times and yet be his arch-nemesis at other times?
1. Even the angels in Heaven have free will. They see God's glory continually and exalt Him for it. Stories suggest Lucifer was the Highest angel and wanted to be God who is perfect. This greed and jealousy falls outside of God's perfection and so he fell from perfection. Why did God create Lucifer? In stories, it was to lead the angels in worship to my knowledge. But just cause God created him does not mean he created him to fall and do evil. These questions ultimately deal with the realm/ dimension of angels that scripture does not cover and man was not meant to tread in (but man will try and try again until the end).
Similarly we could continue to play the blame game as Adam and Eve did. Just cause one man invented a gun and knew it would be used for evil does that mean we are to blame all the past crimes with them on it's creator? Just cause man miss uses things that were intended for good does that make its creator at fault?
2. God did not create fallen angels, he created perfect angels and beings. In the same way God did not create the Nephilim, but the fallen created these abominations upon the Earth and defiled the genetics of man.
3. Satan's goal has been the eradication of man kind and at the very least those who serve God. Just like in the story of Job (Job 1:6 - 2:10) where God allowed Satan to test Job's faith, Satan is eager to fill that role and to destroy. But God will never allow for you or anyone to be tempted beyond their measure of faith. 1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear..."
I apologize if the first reply is still unclear to you. Since it is not Biblically based (to my knowledge) and falls in the realm of angels and outside of our perceived existence, we can only speculate until man can force open those forbidden portals.
One more thing for you to think on the topic of free will and the Garden of Eden. When Eve took the apple and ate from the tree (as did Adam, he shares his own blame for this tragedy) she blamed the serpent who tempted her, while we can continue blaming everyone for our own poor decisions they were to blame for their own actions. If I curse someones name in anger, I still committed the sin and not the one who angered me. No matter when I sin or how long ago I have sinned I repent and turn away from those evils and even when I fall Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was done for me and all man kind, all we have to do is accepted this Grace.
I hope these replies may help answer your questions. I ask that you continue researching and seeking the truth. Maybe you'll find and want to know more about God. I've enjoyed the time to discuss with you, as I enjoy speculating that which man was not made to understand as well.
I'm sure we'll continue this or discuss other topics at a later date.
God bless you.
2. And God could have prevented the fallen from creating those abominations.
When people purposely manipulate us into doing something, they share at least part of the blame. If a man commits suicide because someone threatened to otherwise kill his wife, is the man who threatened him supposed to be blameless?
Now for another perspective.
1. I would like to start out by saying I believe in God being All-Powerfull, All-Knowing, and Perfect Benevolence. Now while I see where your idea on the idea could be correct, my view of God is not the only view either. Many other theologians have other such views that have often limited one of these three aspects in order to fit their understanding and would easily explain this (ex. Process Theology). Like I said I don't agree with that sort of view but they too a applicable speculations on God. Back to our gun example: Ultimately this goes back to free will. Even if the created being (or object) can serve an evil purpose doesn't mean it has too. Ultimately we don't know the exact reason he (or it) fell or if temptation is a requirement to have free will.
2. This point also points to free will. From what lore that I have read these people chose to serve or worship the fallen. Perhaps it was wonders that they could perform on the earth or just that they work creatures of greater abilities; since those people chose to abide with the fallen and create the abominations they had to suffer for their actions as many others suffered for the first persons choice.
"When people purposely manipulate us into doing something..." This seems a little off the original topic of God, but yes. If someone forces someone to perform something they are partially responsible. Whether good or bad. If you force someone to go rock climbing and they enjoy it they may thank you for the experience. This draws away from the topic of Lucifer choosing to rebel against God.
Your example fits with what I would expect Lucifer to do. The book of Job is an excellent example of this. Satan asks to test Job's faith, God allows it. One of the results killed 10 of his children. Does that make God a Murderer?! No (if anything it could easily be explained as judgement of sins). God allowed him to test Job, Lucifer could have left that aspect of his life alone or tested him in other ways, but he chose to be harsh and destructive. This too leads back to free will. Satan wanted Job to curse God and, worse than threaten, took all his possessions and health away. This story can be found in Job chapters 1 and 2.
I hope this provides more insight and clarity. I do apologize for another long comment, I like to try to make my points clear.
God bless you and keep on seeking the truth.
2. Free Will is not the same as freedom. You can restrict/sabotage someone without affecting their free will (a.k.a their ability to control their own actions). For example, God can prevent someone from shooting people by sabotaging the gun, which wouldn't affect that person's free will.
In the case of Job, God was still (partly) responsible for what happened to Job. God could have interfered with Lucifer's actions if he didn't want those actions to happen. If a cop (or other authority figure) turns a blind eye to someone doing something bad, the cop should also be hold accountable. There's a reason why we punish authority figures who take bribes. Also, even if you prove that the things that God allowed to happen should have been allowed to happen, it doesn't change the fact that he was partly responsible for those things.
a.) He releases it and harms several people. God knew this as an outcome and knows what will follow. That individual can still act but will now face the consequences for his actions.
"What about all the lives that were lost?" For him there will be judgement for his crimes on Earth and there will be judgement for him after if he does not seek redemption and forgiveness. For those who died... this is where we differ on views. In every case we have gone through your view has ended at death, much like the story of Job for his children, but what came after. If death is the end, what's it matter if there is a god or not and what's it matter for what evils are done, death would be the end and what's done will have been done. Let's go back to examine the other case...
b.) He changes his mind and decides to either return the beast where he got it or release where it belongs. This indicates a growth on his part resisting that ill willed temptation brought before him. As I said before we aren't certain that "free will" requires the force or act of those who are absent from God. Much the same that I believe there will be free will in Heaven would indicate otherwise, but curiosity and being either partially or wholly separated from God temptations or acts.
2.) Free will verse freedom. I read one of your articles on free will, a lot of the general ideas sounded okay, but your examples seemed a little poor at the time much like your cop examples. The gun example also assumes that death is the end and there by the worst possible outcome.
Your cop example shows the cop doing something bad in response to a bad act in progress. A correct comparison would be the way most systems work today. You cannot convict some one in this world for an act that hasn't been committed yet without the evidence of them pursuing that act. In other words they are not guilty until they have pursued what is wrong. If a cop turns a blind eye to evil being done in the act it would be a crime on the cop's part. If the cop confronts the individual before he embarks on the possibility of committing a crime no wrongs have been done on either part. After the confrontation what the individual does will determine if he is a criminal or not.
b) Why are you going on about the afterlife? I thought this whole discussion was about whether or not God was (partly or entirely) responsible for what Satan does? At least that's what I've been talking about this whole time. If you want to talk about something else, that's fine, but it seems like you don't know what subject I'm talking about.
2) What is a worse outcome than being murdered?
''If a cop turns a blind eye to evil being done in the act it would be a crime on the cop's part.''
You do realize that that was EXACTLY THE POINT I was trying to make? In my metaphor, the cop was a analogy for God.
i think because you believe in your god!
but sadly a false god!
Azathoth a false god!
And All the Time , He is Good !
What inside you comes out!
If inside you is good , then good things or good words will come out!
If evil is inside you or dirty things inside you , it will come out!
You become who you worship!
Azazoth is from HP Lovecraft's books, he's a meme because of Cthulu. Literally 2 seconds of Googling would have taught you that.
In fact you should Google more often, you might end up being smart or something. Here's something to get you started. godisimaginary.com/
Sometimes He uses Satan to express His wrath to those who dis obey Him , to those ungodly , and evil doers!
Because they don't obey God , they don't believe in Him , it means they are expressing hate to God.
That's why God let the people to do what they want.
We can hate Him now , we can say He does not exist , that there is no God!
We can say He is evil than Satan .. we can say and do whatever we want , we have free well.
And God expresses His wrath towards evil.
God is not just love , must accept it !
This not religion , this is reality !
Romans 1:18-22 New International Version (NIV)
God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.
''For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.''
How can you say that INVISIBLE qualities are clearly seen? And if his existence and exact qualities are really this obvious, there wouldn't be this many different religions, or this many versions of Christianity.
And why did your next message only include stuff that you already posted in the previous message?
No need to explain , i don't need to explain or interpret it , we will just argue , and no one will win!
The mercy of God through Christ Jesus is still available now , and its free , don't reject it while its still available!
I know many people , famous or ordinary , they rejected God!
But when they are in their deathbed , they are full of fear and regret !
I know they know God , they just don't believe it and i believe you do.
IF you don't believe in God , don't believe in death , don't believe in heaven and Hell.
And we don't need to explain death because we cant ,and nobody cant,
because no one have been there and came back except Jesus,
when he died and rose from the dead after 3 days.. maybe you call Him a zombie , some said He is .. you can call Him whatever you want.
Religion cannot save us , only Jesus Christ can .
Just want to tell you the truth.
There is God , we experience Him everyday , His Love , His unending mercy , His forgiveness even though we are not worthy people.
We live in His promise , we believe in His message .. and we are changed !
Though there are hardship , trouble , we believe in Him.
Salvation is Free , but through Jesus , not Religion!
"And if his existence and exact qualities are really this obvious, there wouldn't be this many different religions, or this many versions of Christianity"
That is Religion , not just about God , but gods , their gods !
a being like an omniscient god gives a fck about dualism BUT he has to create an "enemy" so that dumb humans can see differences between a "good" being and a "evil" being. the hebrew bible has a very small dualism. god is the guy who is doing everything. the dualism was finished in the christian bible. the reasons r just simple cause try to explain e guy that he is saved from jesus without a "evil" opponent. this would be hard. so it had to be a dualism.
i think that jesus and satan r the same person. jesus is the savior in the bible. but without the "evil", jesus would never be a savior and god is omniscient. the savlation is not the death of jesus, the salvation is the first sin. without the first sin the humanity would never be saved (hard to explain in english, hope u understood).
hope that my english was readable
EDIT 1: i'm not a christian but i think alot about theological concepts. christians r just like a stone. they read the bible in the way the church want it. i read the bible cause i can fidn alot of interessing things there. the philosophy is not that izi as chritians say. i believe in a divine existence, but not in a revelation.
To be honest, I was emotionally disturbed and bothered for months when someone threatened me with hell just for not knowing about a being existing. I couldn't understand. I thought a being that represented all good on earth wouldn't be so cruel and dictatorial. The fact that such a being of "good" would make such a threat frightened and shocked me. After reaserch I found that this was only one of millions on interpretations.
Either way, my opinion is this. What's important about religions isn't the gods, but the morals. Love, generosity, compassion. All of the things that make this world enjoyable for many of us.
Personally, I let go of literal meanings a long time ago and looked for what was truly important. The lessons about kindness.
2. God is allowed to take away what he has given. He saw mankind's true intentions and the evil in our hearts. He used the flood to baptize the Earth, and sparred Noah and his family, making them start life all over again. Also, Noah warned many about what was to happen, and nobody listened or believed. So they perished...
Satan actually killed a few individuals himself. Some say 10 according to the wager he and God had. Others believe it ranges in the hundreds, though not as many as God. But Satan did this out of evil. God took all those lives into Paradise with him, making the reality appear in fact that he actually saved them and ceased their suffering.
3. God and Satan are not the same being. When God speaks, even Lucifer must obey. Though he defies him, he still fears him.
I am assuming you're an atheist who took the context too literal. But take this from a child of God who knows his faith and accepts His will.
2. What about the children who didn't do anything? And war, racism, rape and so on simply continued afterwards, so it didn't really solve anything. And what reasons did Satan have for them? If committing several acts of genocide and infanticide is completely devoid of evil, doing something truly evil sounds quite difficult.
3. Nothing about your exuses implies that you're taking a less literal approach to the Bible than I did. And tons of Christians treat the Bible literally, and since they include most fundamentalists and extremists, that's the approach I take in these images and articles.
2.No reason. And really, all Satan did was influence evil through time. Mankind here really did the sins. God is not to blame for our past sins. It is man's true intentions and nature. We can make any invention, then attach something deadly and create a weapon. Einstein was only a genius for having the bluprints for the explosives, when really he wasn't that smart. Comitting evil seems pretty easy to do, but doing the right thing takes some thought.
3. I will be honest with you and say there are rarely any Christians left. These so called Christians are using God's name for their extreme morals and values, something God didn't teach. He gave us free will. Also, the bible is written in code for intelligent minds. Take the snake who spoke to Eve to eat the apple. A snake was the term used for a known liar. The devil appears as a snake to Eve. he was already a known angel, but suddenly appeared a liar. There are many things that shouldn't be taken literal, including the Holy war.It's a war with ourselves, not everyone around us. Really, our church has been corrupted. But at least some of us know...
And now you know too.
2. If God designed humans, he also designed human nature. He's therefor responsible for actions resulting from human nature. And since Einstein did design the bluprints (and also did A LOT MORE in his life than that), I would say that he's pretty smart.
3. If you claim to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, you're a Christian. Christians are therefor still the majority. And wouldn't God want as many people as possible to understand his teachings and wishes?
2. Just with a thought, God could make science die, or even move forward.
3. He would love that, but he said force isn't the way. He made man in his image, but with free will. You may accept him or not. Some people use the excuse that they are clean and can help those who don't believe to be saved. I think we're all dirty. You're more innocent if you don't know what not to sin, then for us Christians who teach, but don't follow what we teach. You can see why the persecution continues. God isn't to blame. He's not the bad guy. You and me are the bad guys.
Some say this is a test of God. Perhaps. Perhaps not. Either way, you and I may as well be responsible for the world's troubles since we watch them and do nothing.